Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

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Hubert Boussier
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Hubert Boussier »

Bonsoir,

Toujours un peu débutant, j’aimerais bien avoir votre avis sur un problème qui me semble lié à la pollution lumineuse du lieu d’où j’observe, mais je n’en suis pas sûr.

Il y a quelques jours, j’ai fait avec un LISA un spectre d’une étoile variable découverte par le survey de Dauban (http://www.aspylib.com/newsurvey/survey.html), il s’agit de V250.

L’objet est assez faible (mag 11), j’ai posé 11x300s, après prétraitement des images j’obtiens le spectre suivant.

http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/V250 20150306.png
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/_v250_20150306_811.fit

Image

Je ne pense pas que les deux pics en émission marqués par une flèche proviennent de la lumière de l’étoile, je pense plutôt à un artefact. J’ai repris plusieurs fois le traitement, contrôlé les prises unitaires à la recherche de cosmiques ou de points chauds, refait la courbe de rendement du spectro sans trouver la cause de ces deux pics.

Puis presque par hasard, en regardant un spectre de lampe au mercure fait avec un petit spectro jouet, je me suis rendu compte que ces deux pics se trouvaient à quelques angströms près à la même longueur d’onde que deux raies assez intenses des lampes au mercure utilisées par l’éclairage public soit 4070Å et 5460Å.
Je me dis donc que c’est peut-être la pollution lumineuse qui est la cause de ces deux pics en émission. Il est notable que sur le spectre de la même étoile fait l’année dernière sous un ciel plus noir, ces deux pics n’étaient pas visibles. Mais je dois aussi ajouter que j’ai fait d’autres spectres d’objets aussi faibles que V250 sous mon ciel pollué sans que l’on aperçoive ces deux pics, donc il y a peut-être une autre cause.

Dans le cas du spectre de V250, j’ai utilisé une fente double (étroite+photmétrique) et positionné l’étoile sur la fente étroite mais assez près de la limite entre fente fine et fente photométrique, du coup, pour ne pas empiéter sur la zone de la fente photométrique, j’ai dû réduire à 28 pixel la hauteur de la zone qui sert à l’évaluation du fond du ciel, c’est la première fois que j’utilise une hauteur aussi faible pour évaluer le fond de ciel, cela a peut être joué.
Autre hypothèse : j’ai raté quelque chose dans le traitement du spectre.

Merci d’avance


Abstract in broken English:
On a faint star (mag 11) spectrum I see two emissions lines that seem not to be due to the star itself. I assume that it could be light pollution (Hg lines 4070Å and 5460Å), but this the first time I notice this problem with my set-up. The set-up is a C11 EDGE reduced at F/D=0.7, LISA used with photometric slit, using the narrow part of the slit.
I am looking for an explanation and a way to remedy this problem.

Any advice will be welcome

Hubert
Peter Somogyi
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:56 am

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Peter Somogyi »

Hubert,

I've seen this error at others too, but to me it usually appears just as a small Z-shaped ripples (> 14 mag objects with the Alpy).
The problem I think the smile effect calibraion is too ideal - in reality it's bended and has a triangle shape instead straight line -, so I think it works well only within a narrow zone, changing with wavelength... Or my instruments are not 100% perfect of physical setup.
Hence I usually select only a narrow zone (around graticule) at smile calibration (after always did the tilt), having graticule enabled so it helps _where_ to select that narrow zone. (I hope in ISIS once it will be done automatically, at least LHires mode has the needed settings to do less manual work...)
Maybe you chould post here the raw image with calibration frames.

HTH
Peter
Robin Leadbeater
Posts: 1931
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Robin Leadbeater »

Hello Hubert,

Are you using ISIS software? If so, look carefully at the image ISIS produces with the background subtracted. You should be able to see there if there is a problem with background subtraction. As Peter has said,getting the smile/slant correct is critical to get perfect subtraction where the spectrum line is. Also try with the automatic cosmic ray filter on and off as this can sometimes give problems with narrow residual features from sky background lines which have not been subtracted perfectly. Note also that if the background lines are so strong that they are saturated in the image it will be impossible to subtract them perfectly. The only solution in this case is to edit them out manually or to take shorter exposures.

Have you tested my theory that V250 is an eclipsing binary? (That might explain why the spectrum looks like an ordinary A star)
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/spe ... ages/16517

Cheers
Robin
LHIRES III #29 ATIK314 ALPY 600/200 ATIK428 Star Analyser 100/200 C11 EQ6
http://www.threehillsobservatory.co.uk
Hubert Boussier
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Hubert Boussier »

Thank you Peter and Robin for these advices, I will try to process again my raw files taking a special care to the smile angle. Unfortunately, I am not at home and I completely forgot to bring with me the spectrum files so I will do these new tests only at the end of the week. I will keep you informed.

Concerning V250, yes Robin, end of February and beginning March I followed V250 with a photometric set-up during six night (about 3-4h each night because after midnight the star disappear in the city light pollution), I am working on the files to see if I can get something from these data and how they fit or not with data already obtained by François Kugel.

All the best.
Hubert Boussier
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Hubert Boussier »

Hi,

I tried all the ideas you suggested me, but I never succeeded in eliminating the false emission at 5460 Å.
“As Peter has said, getting the smile/slant correct is critical to get perfect subtraction where the spectrum line is.  I tried different slant value (No smile choice with LISA processing
“Also try with the automatic cosmic ray filter on and off as this can sometimes give problems with narrow residual features from sky background lines which have not been subtracted perfectly.”  No effect
Note also that if the background lines are so strong that they are saturated in the image it will be impossible to subtract them perfectly  line not saturated

I tried to pretreat raw images with new offsets and dark images, using ISIS and also CCDSoft  No effect

“Maybe you should post here the raw image with calibration frames.”
So I try to post here some links to typical raw image and to a calibration image, may be it could give a clue for an experienced eyes.
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/ V250_1.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/ V250_3.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/ V250_5.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/ V250_7.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/ Ar-Ne_1.FIT

All the best
Peter Somogyi
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:56 am

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Peter Somogyi »

Hubert,

I've downloaded, tried to reproduce but missing hotpixel list prevented me in a usable recreate (hotpixels appearing as spikes).
Slant angles vary between 1.5 - 1.8 depending where/how do I chose them but I don't expect it caused such trouble.
I suggest playing with 'Binning zone adjustment' set to preset '1' reducing Ysup2 and Yinf2 (background zone if I know it correctly). For 'binning height' 6 can be enough in your case.
But interesting to see such undersampled sharp lines, i never had such, question if ISIS handles it correctly.

Cheers,
Peter
Hubert Boussier
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Hubert Boussier »

Hi,
I added, Offset, Dark, Flat, cosmetic and response files here.

http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/noir_300s.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/offset.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/PLU.FIT
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/cosme.lst
http://www.astrosurf.com/astrild/rendement.fit

By the way I noticed that offset, Dark, and flat are generated by ISIS as 32bits files even if the original file are in 16bits. I never took care of this before.
Robin Leadbeater
Posts: 1931
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Robin Leadbeater »

Peter Somogyi wrote:
But interesting to see such undersampled sharp lines, i never had such, question if ISIS handles it correctly.
Yes I think undersampling could be the problem. Vspec measures the line FWHM at only 1.7 pixels (the neon lines are similar) I do not have a LISA but the same lines in my ALPY are 2.9 pixels FWHM ( 23um slit 6.45um pixels) Perhaps the LISA has a larger reduction through the spectrograph. What is your slit width and pixel size Hubert ?

Robin
LHIRES III #29 ATIK314 ALPY 600/200 ATIK428 Star Analyser 100/200 C11 EQ6
http://www.threehillsobservatory.co.uk
Hubert Boussier
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Hubert Boussier »

Hi Robin,
The camera is an Atik 460EX used in 2x2 so the resulting pixel size is 9.08 micron the slit used is the 23 micron. But I use this set up since mi 2014 and I never had this problem.

Hubert

PS : Robin, a few days ago, I sent you via personal Mail some information about photometric measurements on V250, I hope you received it.
Robin Leadbeater
Posts: 1931
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Raies d'émission inhabituelles, pollution ou autre ?

Post by Robin Leadbeater »

Hello Hubert,
Hubert Boussier wrote: PS : Robin, a few days ago, I sent you via personal Mail some information about photometric measurements on V250, I hope you received it.
Sorry I did not receive it. Can you try again ?
robin_astro@hotmail.com

Thanks
Robin
LHIRES III #29 ATIK314 ALPY 600/200 ATIK428 Star Analyser 100/200 C11 EQ6
http://www.threehillsobservatory.co.uk
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